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Wanted - Cates Kart
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 Posted: Sat Apr 30th, 2011 03:17 am
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Chris Ludwig
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I am looking for a Cates Kart.  Would prefer one restored but will consider any condition.  I raced one as a kid.  I grew up in Fort Worth, TX where they were built but can't find one locally.

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 Posted: Wed May 4th, 2011 12:29 am
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morrissanford
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Here ya go!... It's in Anchorage!...

http://anchorage.craigslist.org/rvs/2287058588.html

spotted on craigslist the other day.  Good luck with shipping.


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 Posted: Wed May 4th, 2011 12:31 am
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morrissanford
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you gotta wonder how it ended up in anchorage... gotta be a pretty short racing season up there!


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 Posted: Wed May 4th, 2011 01:17 am
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Chris Ludwig
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Thanks for the info. Another reader put me on to this one and I am negotiating with the owner now. Freight back to here will be a factor. Thanks again for responding.

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 Posted: Wed May 25th, 2011 07:10 pm
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Ron Carbaugh
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Chris did you buy the Cates? I too raced one back in 1961 in Texas. Thanks for your time.
Ron Carbaugh

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 Posted: Wed May 25th, 2011 07:41 pm
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Chris Ludwig
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No, I didn't get that one.  I believe it is still availiable if money is no object.  It looks really nice in original unrestored condition but he is asking $3,500 and we couldn't come to an agreed upon price. 

I have since purchased another one for less than half that. It is in real good condition and partially restored.  The one I bought is more rare, being one of the last built with rear suspension and set up for duals as an option.  I also like the wheels better on mine, go power mag rather than the Hands.  The Bendix brake is more practicle than the scrub on the tire type which, I believe, some tracks will not let you run with.  Back when I raced my Cates, we eventually replaced the scrub brakes with an Airheart disc.  

Did you race in the Fort Worth area at Southwest Raceway or Double J?

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 Posted: Wed May 25th, 2011 08:23 pm
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Ron Carbaugh
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Chris,
I raced in Southeast Texas. We had a National track in Port Arthur. I would really like to see a picture of the one you bought. I live in Kerrville now and have a Rathman Xterminator that was built by Ron Cubel and it is nice. I am interested in a Cates if you hear of another one come up for sale. I prefer the scrub brakes since that is what I had, but I would like to look at any Cates that comes up for sale. Please send me a picture if you have time.

first turn at hot mail dot com

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 Posted: Thu May 26th, 2011 04:59 am
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Chris Ludwig
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Ron,

I'll try to figure out how to post some pics and send them. 

After I get this one built up I plan to get another one and make it exactly like the one I raced.  We ran a West Bend 580 5 port with a mac flywheel and ignition.  The lighter flywheel made it faster than a regular West Bend and they would not let us run with the West Bends. It was still not as fast as a mac so we couldn't win against them.  A lot of people in this area made the conversion so we started a class called "mac bend" which was quite popular. 

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 Posted: Thu May 26th, 2011 09:57 am
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John Phippen
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Chris,You sound knowlegable on the Cates Karts. I have one I'm redoing now. It has the duel suspension/engine set-up,with Airheart brakes,Go-power wheels,the nassau panel,and the butterfly steering wheel. All I really need ,I guess, is a seat and an engine. Trying to put an exact year on it. Any other info would be appreciated. thanks,John

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 Posted: Thu May 26th, 2011 01:09 pm
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Chris Ludwig
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John,

Go to the web site Precision Karting in Dallas.  They make reproduced seats and fairings for the Cates.  Their web site has some nice pictures and old promo pieces about all the championships won in a Cates.  Bob at Precision Karting can probably help you date it.

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 Posted: Fri May 27th, 2011 09:55 am
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John Phippen
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Chris, I've spoken with them, seat on it's way, but they weren't all that knowledgable on the exacts of time when things came on the kart or not. All he could tell me is that it's a later one. Thanks Though.

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 Posted: Fri Jul 8th, 2011 10:37 pm
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Lance Mearing
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John,

these were the last that Lynn Cates produced. 1963 to 1964.

  I had one just like it in Southen Kalifornia that I raced in 1964. I bought it from Bill Woolard at Inglewood Kart Shop. Mine was actually a 1963 and was the Cates test kart in the November issue of Karting World.

  I had a Mac 40 with a Dyna-Drive gearbox on mine. I wound up switching the rear Go Powers to Dart turbine wheels as I could put spacers in them to accomodate the Major recap slicks I ran. The Go Powers were too narrow for the width and shape of the tire.

  Best handling rear single engine kart I ever drove.

  I wish I still had mine.

  Lance

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 Posted: Sat Jul 9th, 2011 12:46 pm
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John Phippen
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Lance. thanks for the info. I was leaning toward a 64 from the few others I have seen and the fact that it looks like every year they got a little more sofisticated(sp?). Do you know what yours had for a gas tank? I've seen them with little round (log) style tanks behind the seat and I've seen a cpl with a tank molded to the back of the seat. Will probably go with the log style. I've read those test articles time and again on Vintage Archives, Great stuff. Also looking into having a cpl butterfly steering wheels repopped. Cpl guys looking for them. When I get a final price, I'll post and hopefully we can make enough for everyone.

John

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 Posted: Sat Jul 9th, 2011 09:33 pm
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Lance Mearing
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John,

my Cates had a tubular "T" shaped tank on the seatback that was held on with a couple of large stainless steel hose clamps. Since the kart had been sent as a dual the tank had a 7 or 8 qt. capacity.

  Cates used a lot of Aluminum castings on the last karts. The pedals, steering wheel, brake bracket and of course the suspension/engine mount/axle carrier. The rear suspension was held on with Lord Mounts and grade 5 or 8 bolts.

  Going back to the fuel tank again, I was advised that the small tanks that sat on the rear frame member were not baffeled and as a consequence tended to starve the engine in the corners when the tank got about half full.

  Having any of the aluminum castings reproduced sounds like a good thing. Be advised that using your existing parts as patterns will cause dimensional loss in the finished product. This can be made up with casting wax or you could take the part to a company that had three dimensional casting computers and have the difference made up in the pattern.

  Lance

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 Posted: Sat Jul 9th, 2011 10:29 pm
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Ted Johnson
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Be aware that getting very high quality aluminum castings without any voids isn't cheap. That butterfly wheel has a lot of leverage trying to break it off the cast center. I'd hate to think of being impaled by one of those arms! At one time GKCA/IKF had outlawed the cast aluminum steering wheels, but they let them slip by on the Cates. Just a safety thought! Ted

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 Posted: Sun Jul 10th, 2011 05:44 am
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Lance Mearing
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I was unaware that cast aluminum butterfly steering wheels had been outlawed by IKF in 1964. I had an aluminum butterfly wheel on my enduro kart, (prototype IKS Banzai), in 1964 although it was probably a stamping rather than cast.

  All of the aluminum castings on a Cates were of a very high quality and quite sturdy. I don't know what the castings were made of but they were very dense and hard and I suspect they were pressure cast rather than sand cast. I would also suspect that each casting was both x-rayed and put through a zyglo solution.

  As I understand it, Lynn Cates was an engineer at Bell Helicopter in Fort Worth, Texas and if that is true would certainly know where to get that sort of thing done.

  Lance

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 Posted: Sun Jul 10th, 2011 01:56 pm
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Ted Johnson
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Hi, Lance. I can't remember exactly when the cast wheels were outlawed. I agree that the Cates pieces I've seen were of very high quality. I've had a number of aluminum wheels on various karts, but they were wrought rather than cast. I just think, given the LOOOONG arms of the Cates wheel, that casting them by a normal process is an invitation to disaster, and I don't want to see you or anybody else get hurt. IKF and GKCA had some overkill rules, but I believe this is a good 'un! TJ

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 Posted: Sun Jul 10th, 2011 02:01 pm
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Pruit Ginsberg
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I think a cut from 6061 or 7075 plate aluminum wheel would be best for racing. Cast OK for original show kart .

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 Posted: Sun Jul 10th, 2011 02:43 pm
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John Phippen
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For show and origionality is my thinking too. When I run the Cates I'll put on something different. Something like a Rupp wheel.Like they did in that one test article. I and a few others just want them more for show. I would have to believe that the wide butterfly would be hard to turn anyways. Maybe not, it would give a little more leverage then say a 10" round wheel.

Thanks for the insight on the tanks with no baffles too. Something to think about.
Also,what is the Lord mount? Those fat rubber bushings?

Last edited on Sun Jul 10th, 2011 02:44 pm by John Phippen

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 Posted: Sun Jul 10th, 2011 05:12 pm
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Ted Johnson
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Check out:

 http://www.lord.com/Products-and-Solutions/Vibration-and-Motion-Control/Vibration-Isolators-and-Mounts.xml

They provide the epitome in vibration isolation, and have since the 1920's. We used to buy them surplus from Cape Canaveral in the early fifties to mount our early model airplane radio control components. Their components are still used in missiles, aircraft and satellites. Ted

 

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