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Kelvin Callaghan
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Hey all -new guy here. A couple of years ago, I got this kart from a buddy, who got it from someone else. I have no idea what it is. It looks late 60s early 70s recreation kart. My boy has taken a bit of an interest in it, so I suggested we fix it up. It came without an engine, but as luck would have it, I have my dad's old sears edger, which happens to be the same age. The general plan is to mock everything up, then pull it apart for an engine rebuild, strip and paint and upholstry. Any info on kart type or where to get parts for an old Briggs and Stratton would be appreciated. Attachment: IMG_20170824_164306 (1024x786).jpg (Downloaded 266 times) Last edited on Fri Aug 25th, 2017 03:37 am by Kelvin Callaghan |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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Here is a picture of the edger. Attachment: IMG_20170824_164327 (1024x768).jpg (Downloaded 262 times) |
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Mark Loraine
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It’s a Tecumseh H30 3 Hp with a 5/8” crank shaft. What parts are you looking for? The usual carb kit, points condenser and such? I've got nearly everything you need for setting up this engine and kart so P M me with your email address and we can go from there. Hopefully you can use this as a learning tool and stepping stone till you move into the 2 cycle engine side of the sport and maybe even compete with some of the vintage karts using the old 2 cycles I find are more fun than any 4 cycle 3 horse. Thanks. Mark Last edited on Fri Aug 25th, 2017 03:30 pm by Mark Loraine |
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Doug Tenney
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That photo was ME 47 or so years ago. My son got me back into the hobby about 12 years ago. Your kart looks like a Manco to me. I should be able to tell for sure if you post a photo of a wheel (Manco made their own). Other guys on here are way better at ID'ing than I am. Manco hung on until about 6 years ago. Azusa Engineering is the key "enabler" when it comes to parts for older karts and mini-bikes. Basically one-stop shopping. They don't sell directly to the public, but you can get tons of ideas looking through their online catalog. Then, when you have your list figured out, call a local kart shop and they'll put an order in. At least, that's what I do. (Tractor Supply & Northern Hydraulics also sell some of the Azusa line, but all-in-all you will be better served by a local kart shop, if they're good.) The engine sure looks like a Tecumseh H30, and it may be. But there's one thing throwing me. It looks like the fins on the head are curved. Aspera was an Italian company that made engines nearly identical to Tecumsehs, and they had curved fins. [Aspera made the engines on the Broncco karts (also Italian).] By chance, did uncle Luigi bring that edger over from the old country? It would help if you could tells us roughly where you're located. You are so fortunate to have a youngster who shows interest in things that you can't buy at the Apple store! |
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Mark Loraine
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I may stand corrected, but I do believe any of the H30 replacement parts will work for this edger engine. Aspera engine images search link on google https://www.google.com/search?q=aspera+engine&oq=aspera+engine&gs_l=psy-ab.12..0i67k1j0l3.5782.5782.0.7420.1.1.0.0.0.0.355.355.3-1.1.0....0...1..64.psy-ab..0.1.347.bDSOC8jnxdQ Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 01:28 am by Mark Loraine |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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Doug, Mark, Thanks for the info. I live in Austin, TX. I took a picture of the tag today. I will get a few more of the engine tomorrow. Looks like I will have plenty of shop time with the hurricane landing. Attachment: IMG_20170825_084351 (768x1024).jpg (Downloaded 225 times) Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 04:48 am by Kelvin Callaghan |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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Yesterday, my boy and I pulled the engine off the edger and put it on the kart. We freed up the steering and hit everything with PB Blaster for dis-assembly. I have a box of parts for it somewhere, and a rear axle as well. Attachment: IMG_20170824_174208 (1024x768).jpg (Downloaded 224 times) |
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Doug Tenney
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Mark was right. Craftsman model 143.571002 crosses over to Tecumseh H30 35114F. That still leaves the mystery of the curved fin head. Maybe the head was swapped or maybe the shroud. Can you tell from subtle differences in the paint colors? On the Italian motors, the carburetor, flywheel and magneto each bear the names of Italian manufacturers. Carburetor will say "Del Orto." I forget the other two. Notice the primer bulb on the fuel tank bracket, facing upward. I'm almost positive that's an Aspera thing. Some, but not all, of the parts interchange between Aspera and Tecumseh. Small parts, no, big parts, yes. Small parts: carb diaphragm, individual carb gaskets, etc. Big parts: head, shroud, etc. Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 11:33 am by Doug Tenney |
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Mark Loraine
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It likely has the diaphragm type carburetor used on most of the 3hp 2-cycle snowblower carburetors that will have to be replaced. (I meant the diaphragm only) The points will need cleaning as they tend to have a coating of light corrosion on the contacts. Best bet is to replace the points and condenser since the parts are cheap. Rotating the recoil starter CCW 45 degree's enables easier starting. A basic max-torque clutch with a 10-12 tooth #35 pitch sprocket to fit a 5/8" shaft is recommended, I also have those on hand. It might be possible to mount a 4" brake band on the sump cover to brake the clutch drum on these tecumseh engines, depending on drilled and tapped holes on that side of the engine. Manco frame is a good candidate, or maybe its a Carter? Your front wheels are not Manco which has me thinking Carter, but it is definitely a yard/fun kart not prime for anything but that. (see below post on why I am now thinking it may be a sears chassis.) Last edited on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 09:19 pm by Mark Loraine |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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I took a few more pictures early this morning. I can't seem to post but one in each post. I'll start with an overall picture: Attachment: IMG_20170826_075257 (1024x553).jpg (Downloaded 214 times) Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 02:11 pm by Kelvin Callaghan |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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Mark, Here is a better picture of the engine. At first I thought the carb was replaced, but on closer inspection, I found the remnants of white paint. Kelvin Attachment: IMG_20170826_073923 (768x1024).jpg (Downloaded 214 times) |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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Close-up of the carb. Attachment: 00001IMG_00001_BURST20170826074042_COVER (1024x768).jpg (Downloaded 213 times) Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 02:21 pm by Kelvin Callaghan |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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Here is a pic of the wheel. It measures 4.75in max diameter. Attachment: IMG_20170826_074147 (1024x768).jpg (Downloaded 212 times) Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 02:50 pm by Kelvin Callaghan |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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I lost the axle and rear tires, the axle sprocket I have is cracked, and the brake band looks like junk, but I guess the drum is okay. I also have a few brackets that look like they would hold a bearing for the rear axle. I have a welder, so I could weld on some different hangers for the rear axle. Attachment: IMG_20170826_075317.jpg (Downloaded 212 times) Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 02:57 pm by Kelvin Callaghan |
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john phippen
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No need for welding any rear brackets. When you locate the axle,get a cpl 1" bearings and they will sandwich between two of those cassettes on each side and bolt onto the hangers that are already there.Just be sure to put everything on the axle like the sprocket driver and breaks before the bearings.Unless they are outside the frame rails. |
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Doug Tenney
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Yup, Azusa has the bearings, axles, castelated nuts, brakes, everything you'll need. If you don't have a kart shop in your area, you could buy all of this through Comet Kart Sales in Indianapolis, IN, or Riekens, or many others. |
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Doug Tenney
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There is one thing you should use that welder for: attaching a bracket for a brake master cylinder. You (and your son) will be immeasurably happier with a hydraulic disk brake kit than any band or drum brake.* Given that you're starting from scratch with your rear axle, and you can handle some fabricating & welding, it's a "no-brainer." https://cometkartsales.com/MCP-Rear-Brake-Kit.html When we were getting started, we pored over the photos on the REAR site for how the stuff is supposed to look when it's all put together. http://rearenginekarts.com/ [The annual event is happening next weekend; can you slip away to Fremont Ohio?? You will be "Dad of the year"!] * In the 60's the drum brakes were made by Bendix and they weren't bad; would be fine for your application. However, the scuttlebutt on Azusa's reproductions has not been favorable. |
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Mark Loraine
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Was Sears the only one to weld tabs on back of hoop for the tecumseh gas tank? Just wondering if this possibly a Sears Crate cart/.....made by whoo since Sear never made a thing in all the years in existence. Here's one of yous guys kart, maybe Jim Waltz's Sear Orange krate/Crate? Attachment: 168ebb4e72efa2b0c8ffc4a07cf8e2a1.jpg (Downloaded 186 times) Last edited on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 09:32 pm by Mark Loraine |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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So I just want to thank folks for all of there good advice. Much appreciated, but I'm going to disregard a bit of it now -I will probably just use the band brake with a new band, mostly because I don't think this thing is going very fast, but also I would like to keep the "build" period correct. I am trying to work out my direction for the build. I think I should get the needed parts: axle, wheels, tires, brakes, clutch and put it all together. I would also like to get the engine running, and see if we can make this thing go before I tear it all down and paint it -I figure that way I know what needs to be changed/fixed. I measured 33 inches from the outside of the front wheels, so I figure a 34inch rear axle sounds about right, or is there some rule of thumb that I need to follow? Is the rear width typically wider than the front? I need new wheels and tires, and I was thinking of getting these 5inch tri-spokes, but are they period correct? Attachment: Capture.JPG (Downloaded 183 times) Last edited on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 09:51 pm by Kelvin Callaghan |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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Mark, That sure looks like what I have! |
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Doug Tenney
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Looks like Mark nailed it. I'll measure what length axles we use and update this post. Be sure to order some split locking collars to keep the axle from sliding slide to side. If the bearings have set screws for that purpose, don't use them, because they'll raise a burr on the axle, making it impossible to take apart or even shift things around later. Also, buy some lengths of 1/4" square keystock. Rather than using individual keys, which can shift and fall out, use a continuous length of keystock for each item, so it can't shift. Tuck one end of keystock inside the axle bearing, after grinding a small relief in it. Individual keys can walk out. That's a nuisance if it's the key for one of the wheels or the sprocket hub, but a catastrophe if it's the key for the brake durm. Doug |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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Will do Doug! |
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Doug Tenney
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This is probably obvious, but just to be clear: Grind (or file) a little step in the key, so that it tucks inside the bearing ID for the last 1/8" or 1/4" of its length. Don't grind the bearing! Trick I learned from Carl Haydt. |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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So we did a little test fitting the other day, and the kart is a little big for the boy. Despite the grin on his face, he complained that his legs were pressing into the steering supports. Attachment: IMG_20170826_111235.jpg (Downloaded 93 times) |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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This setup is better for him, but I am not thrilled with the leg position. Attachment: IMG_20170826_112059.jpg (Downloaded 92 times) |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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If I put the pedals on the way I think they are supposed to go -he can't reach them. Attachment: IMG_20170905_215932.jpg (Downloaded 91 times) |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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If I reverse the pedals, they are kind of wonky. I would definitely need to add some stops to keep them from falling too far down. So, at this point I am think about getting these from BMI -they look closer to what is on the orange sears kart pictured earlier in the thread. Any sage advice or thoughts appreciated. Attachment: Capture.PNG (Downloaded 90 times) Last edited on Wed Sep 6th, 2017 02:41 pm by Kelvin Callaghan |
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Doug Tenney
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Hi Kelvin. I wonder if the pedals from BMI are actually from Azusa. Azusa seems to own the market for kart and mini-bike components. They're probably worth a try, although experimenting can get expensive. Don't let your son drive the kart with his legs going through the steering hoop. For the same reason nobody wears a seat belt on a motorcycle... when things go awry, you and the kart need to be able to go your separate ways. Knock on wood, hasn't happened to me... yet! |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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Doug Tenney wrote:
Yeah, I think we need to make it work with the legs on the outside. |
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Kelvin Callaghan
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Okay so I am trying to figure out the band brake. I think the setup on the left is the correct way -can someone confirm? Also it looks like I should have a 4.5 inch drum to better fit. Attachment: band brake.jpg (Downloaded 83 times) |
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Doug Tenney
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I'm not sure, but consider this: Assuming that the front of the kart is toward the right: In the view on the left, the braking friction will tend to tighten the band. That's called the Servo effect. That effect is put to use in automatic transmissions to make the band grab tight to complete the shift. Not necessarily a good thing for a brake. In the view on the right, more pedal pressure will be required, but without the Servo effect, there won't be a tendency to lock up. I think you're correct in picking the view on the left. But if it locks up too easily, go with the other choice. Last edited on Wed Sep 6th, 2017 11:34 pm by Doug Tenney |
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tech54K
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I want to do this project too!! Thanks for sharing this. |
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Karty
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Nice build! I'm wondering if you got any tips for the fenders. I found a homemade Go Kart / Reverse Trike Build on Youtube that fabricated the front fender flares. Do you recommend using flat stock and 20-gauge steel on that? |
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