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| Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 02:03 am |
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1st Post |
David Luciani
Administrator
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man this was a pain but here's the main parts without any extra crosstalk.
sorry steve but you didn't add anything to the actual subject!!!
don't worry we all still love you to death!!
dave
Michael Edick
This thread is for the purposes of discussing forum policy, and how it relates to items for sale...it is not meant for piling on or going off about perceived wrong doings.
One of the other forums I deal with called Apex Speed (formula car stuff) has a policy that says if you list something for sale, you MUST list a price. If you don't, you get a warning and have 24 hours to fix the post.
This thread falls somewhere in between...the Craigslist post on the one hand was fine, but not having a price fixed to it is the gray area...maybe this should be addressed somehow.
I'm not looking to dictate forum policy here, as Kevin is doing a great job and is providing a valuable service to the vintage kart community, and I thank him for that! This whole thing about "there goes free speech and the US constitution" doesn't apply here...as forum administrators, Kevin and Michael B. get to make the rules, and we as users need to adhere to their rules, whatever they may be. Looked at in another way, free speech is alive and well and living on this forum, as I was able to give warning to other folks about this deal, as many of us have been burned before.
Thinking back to older posts that referenced Craigslist postings, I think they were put up by people who had nothing to do with the listing, and had nothing to gain form posting it, it was just simply an FYI to the forum readers to look into it and go for it.
herb dickel
i have sold alot of parts on this forum an all i ever did was tell what i had an if interrested write to me or call or give me your # an i'll call ya back as soon as i can . never how much? but i do like talking on the phone better ,an i then know what you have or i might have something else you would like , an more times than not i end up buying something from you. hope this never made any one mad at me . no one ever said anything that i was wrong for not listing how much. well i want to wish the best to everyone in our sport an keep the shinny side up .thanks herb
Pruit Ginsberg
Michael, NOthing wrong with what you said and it was useful information that turned out to identify some strange behavior. Herb's talk on the phone preference is fine as well.
Pruit
Michael Edick
Herb,
Doing it the way you do is fine...I also like talking to folks over the phone, as you get a better feel for where they're coming from, where is the dividing line between a fair price and a "are you out of your mind?" price, and also to see if there's room for horse trading...and you get to put a voice to a name.
It is a gray area for sure, to require an asking price or not when you list something...
Dean Seavers
The HAMB, a Hot Rod/Drag Racing forum I frequent also requires a price when listing anything for sale. Their feeling is it makes things less complicated, and potential buyers know if the item is a possibility or not. I personally like it, and I know when I sell something I generally know what a fair price is. If I don't, I'll throw it up on eBay to find out.
david luciani
good topic,
Anyway i think a rule about posting prices is a good idea .
it might work against us if resellers see the prices but since the prices are generally lower on forum it might be a good thing too.
it surely will stop the alleged "thin air" auctions and maybe keep the burners at bay.
i'd be willing to be Kevins "eyes" so he doesn't have to check the forums daily.
i could just shot him a p.m. if there was somebody not complying.
my two cents
dave
Dean Seavers
Dave- I would be willing to help as well. I know with the HAMB there are a group of guys who are the eyes and police the buy/sell forum over there. It ends up being kind of like the rule about using your real name is here. It's posted as part of the forum rules, and if someone doesn't comply, people just point out the rules. Often times it's an honest mistake and folks amend their post, but it's still grounds to keep things on the up and up.
Michael Edick
Back to the subject at hand, we have never had a problem before this. A listed price would make things simpler, but then you have guys like Herb who have never had a problem.
Do we just chalk this episode up to experience, or do we really need to instigate a rule that says a person must list a price when posting an item?
We will get people who say they want a $100 for a 1 inch Margay wheel rim half (which would be their right to do so), but then it would be up to the person who really needs that wheel half to contact the person and arm wrestle over the price. If the seller refuses to budge on the price, then you are faced with same scenario like you get when a feeding frenzy happens on eBay: "how much is that rim half REALLY worth to me to finish my project?"
On the plus side, when no one responds to seller with the crazy asking price, then hopefully that'll be a signal to that person to get real, so in this case the market levels itself.
How do we post a poll?
Simple question: Should items listed by a "seller" in the for sale section of the forum be required to have a price attached to them, even if the post refers to a Craigslist item?
David Luciani
on the whole if you're selling you need to post prices thing i think we could maybe make the rule say that you need to post prices when you're a new member.
maybe make it at least 30 posts or years membership a requirement to do off forum pricing.
if you're a member with lots of posts or years on the forum we already know you.
in my observations the scammer or nasty reseller issues come from newbes looking for a big score without ebay fees.
on the whole craigslist thing we should say if you're just forwarding info you need to say so.
i always do and it seems to work well.
regardless we do need to add some rule if just to prevent a repeat performance by another braindead newbe without a clue.
dave
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| Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 02:21 am |
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2nd Post |
Steve Welte
Member
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Doesn't matter to me. I judge people by how they conduct themselves. I don't get in a hurry to deal with a lot of people and it pays to do some searches. When you are new it is easy to get beaten up but if you are new and have a attitude you are probably at strike 3 immediatly. I am also not in a hurry to send off money to someone new. As always, yes even here, Buyer Beware.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 02:44 am |
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3rd Post |
Michael Burke
Member
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I'm in favor of prices being required because I at least know the starting price or the firm price. I've bought race car parts thru posts on the Apex Speed site and it was nice going in already knowing what the seller had in mind. In most cases that's a starting point. It saves a lot of time for both parties when the numbers are known at the beginning. I prefer not to make offers because I don't want to offend the seller if my offer is a lot lower than the price he may really want to get. There's an Ebay seller that always uses a starting bid very close to a buy it now price that's a few dollars more. If his item doesn't sell at his first price he keeps lowering it until it sells or he reaches a price that he won't accept and then he stops the auction. I've bought a lot of stuff from him and it's so much easier than bidding and wondering if you'll get beat in the last few seconds.
Michael
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| Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 02:47 am |
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4th Post |
| Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 03:21 am |
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5th Post |
Shane Tucker
Member
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From my newbie perspective (been hanging around for about a year now) it's always nice to see prices on items to give some perspective.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 09:41 am |
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6th Post |
Sterling Brundick
Member
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It is nice to see some kind of base line price up front, especially for us newer guys that are not as price knowledgable as all of you old salts. Of course, if a price is not shown, simply doing a little research on the 3 main forums will usually produce a starting point. I have't bought a whole lot of stuff but from what I've seen, most everyone seems pretty fair to me. But then again, I'm rather new to this.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 12:34 pm |
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7th Post |
Gary Wlodarsky
Member
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its good to see a price, even if its a starting point...ya never know, barter,trades,,,.....
and if you say your gonna sell it and you get questions about the item..... at least respond....unlike some
and I agree with the one comment..""what is it,""...""how much is it worth"", ""can I retire off it""???
garyLast edited on Fri Jun 8th, 2012 12:43 pm by Gary Wlodarsky
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| Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 12:41 pm |
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8th Post |
tom perry
Member
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To reinforce what shane and Sterling just posted, as another novice here, pricing gives me the chance to learn the value of karts and stuff. I am a buyer not a reseller. working on my first vintage kart in over 40 years, not knoing a good deal when I see one is difficult when E-Bay or C-list is my only source.
I have learned a lot in the 8 months I have been on this forum, and I give thanks to all of you who have contributed to that learning curve.
Regards,
Tom
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| Posted: Fri Jun 8th, 2012 02:29 pm |
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9th Post |
Jeff Bridgeman
Member
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Coming from the Pelican 911 forums(don't worry, most there are not pricks) I'd say yes, post a price.
Questions along the lines of 'what is it worth?' are allowed in a 'marketplace discussion' subforum to avoid cluttering up classifieds.
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Chris Sahagian
Member
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Hey Dave; Yes besides vintage karting,I am into 911 Porsches[you saw the garage] and am a Pelicanite. I have bought and sold 911's on there and bought and sold parts there also. If you don't know what the car/part is worth,you just post whats it worth?? You always get a honest answer on market values on stuff. Then put it up for sale and take offers. The guy that was on here selling/auctioning old kart parts, would have been bounced off there from the get go,besides having one of the boys pay him a visit. Regards;Chris
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Christ Holtz
Member
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All this "What's it worth" & asking price & market value & value discussion & almost 40 years as a succesful expert supporting my family as an expert trading warrants the following IMHO
In Short including but not limited to:
1. STUFF/THINGS/SERVICES are worth what someone/anyone will pay for it. A sellers "Asking Price" is meaningless bc the buyer has the cash & decision power.
2. Supply & Demand effects price/value.
3. Desire strength effect total sales.
4. Like Market Sales History over a specific time period determins value.
5. What failed to sell at a certain price for a like condition identical item in the same geographic area can determine value as much as what did actually sell with the same perameters aforestated.
6. Used stuff is generally for a starting point worth half of what like conditioned new stuff sells for . Condition effects price.
7. If all else fails you can work backwards pricing individual items new & virtually building figuring cost & labor the item & then adjust for wear & tear.
8. Beauty & value is in the eyes of the beholder.
9. It takes a meeting of 2 (or perhaps more if co-owned/co-purchased) minds on price & terms to have a binding contract of sale.
10. In almost all of the points above "Asking Price" is inmaterial to the end result & it doesn't set value or dictate market rate/price. Closed sales & Sale Failures history determine cash values.
LQQK here;
http://www.kpmfg.com/index.php?p=1_5_Bug-Sprint
THIS RETO BUG IS CONDSTRUCTED OF THE FINEST MATERIAL, INDIVIDUALLY HAND FITTED AND TIG WELDED IN A PERMANENT FIXTURE.
• SGL.RAIL FRAME 1”.083 WALL 4130 CHROMEMOLY TUBING
• ORIGINAL METALIC BLUE POWER COAT PAINT
• HIGHLY POLISHED ALUMINUM BELLY PAN
• TUCK & ROLL, MACHINE STITCHED NAUGAHYDE UPHOLSTERY W/ JEWEL PAD
• LIGHT WEIGHT AZUSA 5” ALLOY WHEELS.
• ALUMINUM TAPER - LOCK SPROCKET HUB
• MCP HYDRAULIC BRAKE
• PLATED 1” AXLE WITH ¼” KEYWAY- 36" LONG
• 5” SLICKS
• CHROME SWING MOUNT- MIRROR FINISH
• DROPPED SPINDLES INCLUDE OILITE BEARINGS
• OPTIONAL EXTRAS:
• AIRHEART HYDRAULIC $ CALL
• FIBERGLASS NUMBER PANEL W/ CLIPS $ 30.95
• CHROME "RETRO" CHILTON TANK W/ CAP $ 329.00
• PLASTIC 5 QT. TANK W/ CAP & SHUTOFF VALVE $ 50.00
SINGLE $2495.00 + CLIPS $ 30.95 + CHROME "RETRO" CHILTON TANK W/ CAP $ 329.00 + PLASTIC 5 QT. TANK W/ CAP & SHUTOFF VALVE $ 50.00 + tax + s/h and or your wear & tear auto expense & fuel RT. No motor, 3rd bearing, carbe, pipes, clutch, chain etc.... All are extra + time + S/H ect..
If a replica new is over $3000 + , doesn't an Original real McCoy have a half value baseline starting point depending on condition & supply & demand ? JMHO
Its honorable to forgive, But wisdom never dis-remembers least we repeat our folly and learn nothing from our transgretions & wrong. JMHOLast edited on Fri Jun 8th, 2012 08:59 pm by Christ Holtz
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Steve Miller
Member
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good idea to have a price ., can say (example) go kart 100 bucks .or best offer .. cannot say go kart make offer .. thats where i went wrong a bunch of times .. soon as you say make offer its an auction ..
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Christ Holtz
Member
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Steve,
So does that mean that every product for sale with multiple private (not public) offers constitute a auction by your definition ? Interesting .. 
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Sterling Brundick
Member
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Dave L:
You may have hit on something there. That sounds like a good idea and it would be benifical to everyone I think. And over a short period of time, same type items would build a good baseline average both asking price (starting point) and sold price (if seller is kind enough to provide that info). It would be helpful to everyone in the long term since for example, every engine is different (based on original starting point condition, extras preformed on engine such as boring, additional porting, etc.) or wheels, from NOS to once used to sever chain rash. It could get pretty tecnical. It's just a matter of how far out you want to take it. It is certainly something worth considering I think.
Comments?
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Steve Miller
Member
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christ ., yes sir in my mind it would be considered an auction .. to me you list somethin 100 bucks best offer .. first guy shows up with cash makes offer you say nope he counters still no agree the next guy has same chance to me thats sellin something .. post best offer first guy shows up offers you ten bucks you deffinatly say no im gonna wait to see what next guy offers he offers 20 off we go auction time .. but if the guy offers you 20 you say nope need 100 he offers 90 you say ok .. now thats still a sale to me cuz i said the price .. you prolly dont understand hillbilly but thats how we work it in hills of n.y. Lol. !!
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Brad Beard
Member
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Gee Chris
I didnt know all of us Pelicans were here. Must be something about chrome cylnders or something. Think it would be ok to list the occasional 911 whale-tail or turbocharger in the for-sale sectionas long as we list the price? Brad
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Chris Sahagian
Member
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Hey Brad; Ya know there is a similarity,911's are rear engine[as rear engine karts] and the older ones are air cooled[as karts,for the most part] However they are four stroke. Gee maybe they do go hand in hand??? Lets not forget about Corvairs too,they are even closer to karts as they were american made. Wow my mind really is gone LOL[what mind??] Warmest Regards;Chris
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Steve Miller
Member
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ohhhhh so you wanna talk corvairs ... the way i see it must be the whole underneith was like a huge skid pan and they was made for off road ..!!! cuz when i just turned 18 i was off road or in the ditch fairly regular .. mine had 6 (six ) 44 mm mikunis even funnyer local priest built it ...we used two throttle cables of a 1974 kawasaki 500 triple .. it actually ran very well all 160+ hp.
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