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Restoring a kart
 Moderated by: Kevin Gagne
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 Posted: Fri Aug 5th, 2011 05:43 pm
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Levi Shepherd
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Mana: 
I am in the process of disassembling my Margay new breed and I wanted to get some input from others who may have had the same problem.

The problem I am having is getting everything off the rear axle (5 bearings, 1 disk brake, 1 sprocket hub, 2 drive wheels).  Everything is seized with rust! 

Do I just need to pull the wheels and install all new components or is there some tricks you guys would be willing to share.  I used a three jaw puller on the 24 series drive hub with some map gas and it broke, I almost cried, then I was angry so I had to walk away :X

Just for the record I have been using a wire wheel and naval jelly to try and remove as much rust as possible from the axle. 

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 Posted: Fri Aug 5th, 2011 07:06 pm
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Mike Reller
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In nearly all instances it's best to cut the axle up into small pieces. a new axle is not that expensive. I guess about the price of a Margay wheel center. A 4 1/2" grinder will go through an axle in less than a minute.

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 Posted: Fri Aug 5th, 2011 07:48 pm
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Michael Edick
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I concur with Mike...chop that sucker!

Go to your local Lowes or Home Depot and buy a couple of bimetal cutoff wheels (also called an abrasive cutoff wheel), 4-1/2" diameter by .045 thick...it'll slice thru that axle like butter.

Just be careful while you're doing it, cuz if the cutoff wheel gets stuck and grabs halfway thru, the wheel will grenade on you...just make sure you wear eye and/or face protection and let the wheel do the cutting...don't force it!

For saving the rest of the rusted stuff get Silikroil (http://www.kanolabs.com/)

It's a really awesome penetrating oil...a miracle in a can.

Last edited on Fri Aug 5th, 2011 07:49 pm by Michael Edick

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 Posted: Fri Aug 5th, 2011 10:53 pm
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Steve Miller
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yes sir mikes ..its a job to take apart an axle  there has been few decusions on here about axles  ....you have to make sure theres no .none ,notta .no kinda rough marks or sharp edges ..then you have a lot of patiants and oxey accet. heating up bearings ..it takes a long time.. ive saved 88% or so of axles but lots of times for 40 bucks i dunno if its worth it ..chop it up press out anything thats stuck call aps or who ever buy new you will be lot more happyer..

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 Posted: Sat Aug 6th, 2011 03:52 am
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Levi Shepherd
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Thank you for the suggestions, and saving me the frustration.  You guys are absolutely right, it's definitely not worth my time for $40 considering I was going to replace the axle any way.  I'll be chaulking this one up as "you live and you learn".

It's a shame too, the hub was mint.  If anybody has a drive hub for sale shoot me a PM! :D

Last edited on Sat Aug 6th, 2011 04:07 am by Levi Shepherd

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 Posted: Sat Aug 6th, 2011 12:20 pm
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Eddie Katcher
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If you have access to a hydraulic press, heat the pieces up in the oven to around 250 degrees then make a mad dash to the press.  My experience is that they move pretty quickly.  The trick is to preset the operation to minimize the parts cooling down too much  before you can get the parts set up in the press.

I also heat engine cases in the oven and freeze main bearings.  They just drop into place...............plop.  (See Mike............sounds like...........plop).  Sorry, inside joke.

pnd

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 Posted: Sat Aug 6th, 2011 01:12 pm
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Ted Johnson
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Eddie, I, too have been freezing bearings and heating cases, also freezing cranks and heating bearings. I was talking to Terry Ives, and he warned that traces of condensation may form, thus causing corrosion. I've been very cautious to get rid of that condensation before the next assembly phase. TJ

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2011 03:01 pm
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Kevin Brown
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In Theory....   Would'nt applying heat to a collar on a shaft ( wheel on an axle ... ect)  cause the collar to swell... making the INSIDE diameter smaller making it harder to remove?  I know the application of heat causes movement which sometimes helps but it would seem that an application of cold ( dry ice) would shrink the collar making the inside diameter larger... As I work for a living I know that theory and real world dont always make sense.  Just a thought.
Kevin

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2011 04:18 pm
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Ted Johnson
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Seems sensible to me, Kevin, but ring-shaped objects expand outward, including the inside diameter. It definitely helps in light press fits to heat the sleeve, bearing, Etc. and chill the shaft. Room temperature ball bearings that won't go a chilled shaft will drop on when heated to 200 F.

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2011 05:16 pm
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Dan Flanders
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Another cheaper and better alternative to Kroil is a 50/50 mixture of ATF and Acetone. I love Kroil, but the s*** is EXPENSIVE.

Another old time rust removal trick is molasses and water (swear to god). It takes time (weeks) for the rust to  be eaten away, but it works really well and doesn't affect the parent material.  As molasses ferments, it produces a mildly acidic solution that eats rust.

Dan

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2011 05:31 pm
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Brian Thomas
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Plus 1 on what Dan said ,  atf and actone is the best penatrate . The rodders swear by molasses .

 Brian

Last edited on Mon Aug 8th, 2011 01:32 am by Brian Thomas

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2011 06:23 pm
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Kevin Brown
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Fred,
  If a ring shaped object expands outward with heat , the heat expands the thickness... thus the outside expands outward toward the outer edge  and the inside would expand outward  (really inward) or toward the edge or interior making the exterior diameter larger and the interior diameter smaller.  make sense?  If you heat a flat bar will not both sides expand.
Too much time on my hands today.
Kevin

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 Posted: Mon Aug 8th, 2011 12:16 am
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Steve Miller
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hhhmmmm not sure but i no for a fact that you boil a bearing in oil and fridge the shaft bearing will drop right on ..been building motors for 40 yrs ..only way i no how to press a crank together ..

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 Posted: Mon Aug 8th, 2011 01:16 am
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Ted Johnson
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Kevin, I agree with you that that's the way it seems it ought to be, but in real life it doesn't happen thataway! TJ

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 Posted: Mon Aug 8th, 2011 02:12 am
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David Luciani
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Mana: 
with heat the whole piece expands out ward following its shape..
so the hole inside gets bigger.
you're imagining the parts expansion to be more like a ballon swells as air is added.

in casting shrinkage is a  a major factor in getting the part to release from the mold.
as metal heats it expands as it cools it contracts both follow the general shape of the part.

if that doesn't help i'll put it this way i too work for a living and that's how metal acts under heat and cold.
now go work on your kart if you've too much time on your hands!!!:P
dave:cool:

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 Posted: Fri Aug 12th, 2011 04:31 pm
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Kevin Brown
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Dan Flanders wrote: Another cheaper and better alternative to Kroil is a 50/50 mixture of ATF and Acetone. I love Kroil, but the s*** is EXPENSIVE.

Another old time rust removal trick is molasses and water (swear to god). It takes time (weeks) for the rust to  be eaten away, but it works really well and doesn't affect the parent material.  As molasses ferments, it produces a mildly acidic solution that eats rust.

Dan

Would molasses then be the ideal way to remove rust from the inside of a gas tank?
What would be the ratio of molasses to water?
Thanks
Kevin

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 Posted: Sat Aug 13th, 2011 03:05 am
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Steve Miller
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VERY .!! good question ...whats the best way to clean the inside of a tank thats perfect on outside and has an inch thick of rust and gooo inside it ..i chop big hole in back of almost every tank i got..then  sand blast the insides ..scrub them up real good with a green scotch brite weld patch back on ..P.S. also makes it way easyer to fix dents ...

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 Posted: Sat Aug 13th, 2011 06:04 am
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Joe Drabicki
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Hey Gents,

There was a family of moles living in the country, Mama mole, Daddy mole and baby mole. Mama mole wanted to go into town to see what was going on that morning. The whole family walked into town, Daddy, then Mama with Baby following behind.

They walked by a bakery. Daddy mole said, "Smell all those wonderful baked goods, breads, muffins, mmmmmm". They walked by a pizza place. Mama mole said, "Smell that wonderful fresh pepperoni pizza!". They walked by a cookie shop. Mama and Daddy said in unison, "MMmmmm, smell those delicious cookies!".

Daddy mole asked Baby mole, "Son, do you like all these wonderful smells?"

Baby mole said, "All I can smell is molasses!". He was short, you see...

WOW! Molasses eats rust? Who knew? I guess you could rub a mole on the axle?

Kind Regards, Joe

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 Posted: Sat Aug 13th, 2011 09:43 am
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Brian Thomas
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Kevin Brown wrote: Dan Flanders wrote: Another cheaper and better alternative to Kroil is a 50/50 mixture of ATF and Acetone. I love Kroil, but the s*** is EXPENSIVE.

Another old time rust removal trick is molasses and water (swear to god). It takes time (weeks) for the rust to  be eaten away, but it works really well and doesn't affect the parent material.  As molasses ferments, it produces a mildly acidic solution that eats rust.

Dan

Would molasses then be the ideal way to remove rust from the inside of a gas tank?
What would be the ratio of molasses to water?
Thanks
Kevin
10 gallons water to 1 gallon molasses http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=408074&highlight=moleasseshope this helps. Brian

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 Posted: Tue Aug 16th, 2011 10:52 am
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Dan Flanders
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Cool Brian, thanks for the supporting link.

Molasses has its limitations, it WILL NOT cut through grease and oil so make sure to do a good job of cleaning and de-greasing. I was very impressed how well it worked, but it takes time. Also, because it involves fermentation, it will be sensitive to temperature so if you're working with really cold temps it will take longer.

Attached are some before and after pics of some Hornet spindles I experimented with.




Attachment: SpindleBefore.jpg (Downloaded 90 times)

Last edited on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 10:57 am by Dan Flanders

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